the 18 random germans amongst the ottoman cavalry is funny to think about, the interesting thing about the ottomans was the sheer number of renegades from christendom, who just went over seeking another path to glory. Im fairly certain most of the famous pirates from the barbary slave trade were probably european and not berber
Me writing this note on Albanian brain drain 6 days ago and then seeing whole essay written on the subject is like dropping an apple seed on the ground and coming back a week later to see a whole apple tree.
'It is possible modern Turks have a significant amount of Balkan ancestry.'
It's *certain* that millions are 💯 Balkan in ancestry. East and most non ankaroid central Asia Minor Turks have virtually no balkan ancestry though unless its descent be from some much earlier layer.
I had a girlfriend from sround eskisehir who was half Tatar and half Albanian: HOTT. You young American men could do alot worse than bang anatolia...
Anyhow your map of consanguineous relations in Turkey shows pretty high cousin marriage by euro standards, even in the west and centre. You're right it's low compared to wretched Araby but can you imagine even half a per cent consanguinity, as in Izmir (Smyrna!) province, occurring in modern Europe! T'would be a scandal sir!
Finally: firmly Orthodox Romania (no devshirme!) and Montenegro are also low IQ, and Romania is falling fast. I have a theory about the latter which I won't get into here. But the point is that there is probably a gene-culture effect in the Balkans generally that drives down intelligence relative to Western Europe and has nothing to do with soaking off of elites to the Ottoman state. Also the gap between musulmani and Christians *within* the Balkans is pretty slight--something like 1/3 of a SD--which I doubt is significant either practically or *******statistically*******
I doubt millions of Turks are entirely balkan as even European Turks have some central Asian. They’re genetically closest to Balkaners though
I know a fellow who loves Turkish girls. He got really angry at me for saying Turks are a male race once. He is quite sinister, even enjoying a type of food called a sinister snack.
Romania has extremely bad recent brain drain to the west and is also one of the most dysgenic countries by birth distribution over income. Sebastian talks about this in his post. 1/3 of an SD is not paradigm shifting but it is probably real and you can see its impact by looking at Asian academic success
'Approximately 5-7 million Muslim migrants from the Balkans (from Bulgaria 1.15 million-1.5 million; Greece 1.2 million; Romania, 400,000; Yugoslavia, 800,000)'
The vast majority of these people are not Turkic at all and since their arrival in TÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜRKIYE* have tended towards endogamy.
'I know a fellow who loves Turkish girls.'
They can be very nice and not that difficult in the wooing--easier in fact than many Balkan Christian maidens.
'Romania has extremely bad recent brain drain to the west and is also one of the most dysgenic countries by birth distribution over income.'
Both sadly true! The accursed EU is responsible for the former; interbreeding with Gypsies explains the latter until somebody addresses the matter properly (Jensen has not) and convinces me otherwise.
'Skanderbeg was Italian!'
OXI!
*why do some writers I sort-of respect submit to Turkroach decolonisation propaganda by using the new received nomenclature? The Huwhite Man uses Turkey, just as he uses Calcutta, Peking, Ceylon, Canton, Madras and Bombay!
Gyppoes are also a cause of Romanian low IQ, but they make up only a small percent of the population. Probably less than 10% of romanian citizens have any significant gypsy ancestry, but Gypsies are by far the most retarded people in Europe averaging at like 70-75 IQ
No stats are kept but I can assure you that on the basis of impressions the percentage is higher than that, especially among zoomers. Even 10 per cent overall would be a lot: two to three million.
The other thing is that I doubt many full-blood Gypsies have been included in IQ testing *as such*. There are probably more of them contributing to recent dismal PISA averages (more in education system than ever before).
If you mean the one about bang Anatolia I can post a picture of her *in flagrante delicto* if it would help you decide whether to launch your own campaign to recapture Constantinople through sexual conquest. I did a lot of capital work and I think I almost succeeded but I now pass the torch on to you yooves.
oh well if you mean SkanderBERG the answer is obviously otherwise...
heheh no no I have no source but his real name was Giorgos Kastrioti(s) and you you will find plenty of Greekoids on retard HBD forums, youtube etc arguing he was a co-ethnic. Balkan memes on xitter is one amusing aggregator of this kind of material.
Pace those people though: I really wonder though how distinct most Greeks and (Toskoid southern only?) Albanians have been since the middle ages. Most people in Attica for example are Albanian in ancestry to some degree and of course a famously large number of Greek independence fighters were Albanoids (eg best name ever Greek chick Laskarina Bouboulina), especially in the navy; also on land the Souliotes and many such cases.
NB: This should not be taken as condoning Albanian colonisation of Greece since the 1990s, which I wholly lament.
I would like to see some data corroborating the notion that Muslims do not seem genetically distinct enough from their neighbors to warrant the significant difference in average IQ being a function of genetics. I'm especially suspicious because you often seem to use ancestry as a proxy for clinal distributions (which is appropriate in certain contexts but should largely be avoided). Regardless, there is a simple mechanism that could explain the average IQs being different while the populations are genetically very similar: consanguineous reproduction. I know you kind of covered this in a cursory way, but I think I could offer some more support in favor of the theory. IQ is for the most part highly polygenic, so we often expect there to be a sizable genetic gap between populations with notably different IQs. However, not all genetic influences on intelligence must be polygenic in character. If there is a trend of incestuous relationships generating individuals with defects due to the expression of rare and deleterious recessive alleles, then not too many genes need to enter the picture to yield profound differences between groups. As is well known, many Islamic societies are so swamped in incest it may as well be considered a public health crisis. As an aside, I always found it interesting how Sean Last uses this reality to make the point that in order to deny racial differences in intelligence due to genes one must also believe inbreeding has no negative effects on intelligence since groups widely vary in how frequently they engage in inbreeding.
I've a soft spot for the Albanians and the other Paleo Balkan peoples as well. If you've seen the new Nosferatu movie, Eggers hired a linguist to recreate the Dacian language for Count Orlok to use. What's your two cents on the Albanian origins. Closer to Greco-Armenian or Balto-Slavic?
Definitely closer to Greco-Armenian. Dacian on the other hand, I have heard compelling evidence recently that it is actually closest related to Balto-Slavic
Come come now sir how can anyone say that? There are no inscriptions at all and the leftover toponyms etc give no real grounds for distinguishing it from also poorly attested Thracian. Also what is left of Dacian must have been mediated by Slavic.
The Dacian warrior caste was heavily Celticised by the time of the Roman encounter. The Dacians were probably one of the very oldest aryan peoples of Europe, therefore lots of 'ethnic layering'. Nobody will ever figure them out NOBODEH!
Pax Weltkreig on Xitter was talking about it, but I think he was only proposing it as a possibility. The consensus is still that it is closer to Balkan langs
I’ve read that Romanian has a lot of Albanian-like substrate. We also know that the original Eastern Romance speakers came from along the Adriatic coast. Why do Romanians claim themselves as Dacians. Wouldn’t the evidence suggest that they are latinized Albanians rather than latinized Dacians.
It does--even calques of whole proverbs. I think this is by far the strongest evidence that the Vlachs originated south and not north of the Jirecek Line. Otherwise the Albanian Highlands origin hypothesis badly violates occam's razor and I'd say the balance tilts in favour of some form of Dacian continuity.
I don't think it's a case of the original E Romance speakers having come from the Adriatic. There were undoubtedly Latin speakers in Hungary and Dacia too. It's a question of 1 the strength of their presence in Dacia and 2 whether they were evacuated/exterminated or survived to transform Latin into E Romance north of the Danube. If they did, they must crossed the river and diffused as far south as Greece and Croatia to bring about the Aromanins, Istro-Vlachs etc. If they didn't they must have come from somewhere south of the Danube. That's it.
Illyrian-Dacian-Thracian are very difficult to distinguish both because they were almost certainly pretty closely related and because there is just not enough direct attestation of any of them.
I wrote a really long and boring piece (don't read it) on this subject some months back on muh stack.
Fucked if I know but if you insist on an answer I will talk out of my arse...
The former--any resemblance to Balto-Slavic *might* be explained by the fact that that Illyrian/Dacian/Thracian are all very early branchings and they *appear* to be like Balto-Slavic because it's the most conservative extant sub-branch of IE. But this is one of the first things real linguists correct for, so I don't know...
Also the idea (still current as far as I know) is that Greco-Armenian speakers must have come south from the Balkans--each a separate wave from I/D/T but also non-Corded Ware--with Armenian later ending up in the Anatolian Highlands...somehow. On the other hand, BAP thinks the Greeks came to Greece by sea (he is a R Drews enjoyer) and the Armenians...I can't remember what he thinks.
But really I am just a dillettante and have studied none of it at all closely.
It *sounds* great. I don't have the skills to say how accurate it is but all reconstructions of Dacian and other poorly unattested languages peforce rely a lot on imagination.
This is an incredible article! Indeed, it makes sense that the Jizya (Islamising the worst) was improving the Christian population, but the case with the Ottomans was different because they were compensating it with Devshirme (Islamising the best).
Still, what I would contend is whether IQ is a beneficial metric for the population. If the dumb people breed more and urbanise harder, and retain their clan structures more often... IQ is a detriment. (Unless it's used for genocide, like the Germans/Japanese did.)
Dumb people have more dysfunctional societies and cities tend to be meccas for the intelligent. It is only recently that they've become an abode for less intelligent people as they provide many social services. Clannishness seems mostly independent from IQ.
You should make an article on Kurds I heard theyre Persan but I also have heard that they are a mixture of different tribes(not necessarily Persian) that call themselves kurds so idk what they are
Allegedly they are Medes, but I think there is no good evidence that they are Medes. Yes, they both speak Northeast Iranian languages, but so do plenty of other populations.
the 18 random germans amongst the ottoman cavalry is funny to think about, the interesting thing about the ottomans was the sheer number of renegades from christendom, who just went over seeking another path to glory. Im fairly certain most of the famous pirates from the barbary slave trade were probably european and not berber
There was at least one Dutchman in their number!
Me writing this note on Albanian brain drain 6 days ago and then seeing whole essay written on the subject is like dropping an apple seed on the ground and coming back a week later to see a whole apple tree.
https://substack.com/profile/180070001-deepleftanalysis/note/c-86641148
I did not see dis
that makes your article 100x more amazing. I prayed and you provided.
Article is long & the brown background hurts my eyes.
One thing I'm not sure you mentioned is the role of contraception.
Islamic elites were allowed to do pull out & other bs which Catholics banned.
Easier divorce in Islam also probably suppressed elite tfr?
Polygamy also since beautiful women were likely to not reproduce & just be kept as a trophy?
I've been wanting to change my color palette for a while now. I think it's finally time
'It is possible modern Turks have a significant amount of Balkan ancestry.'
It's *certain* that millions are 💯 Balkan in ancestry. East and most non ankaroid central Asia Minor Turks have virtually no balkan ancestry though unless its descent be from some much earlier layer.
I had a girlfriend from sround eskisehir who was half Tatar and half Albanian: HOTT. You young American men could do alot worse than bang anatolia...
Anyhow your map of consanguineous relations in Turkey shows pretty high cousin marriage by euro standards, even in the west and centre. You're right it's low compared to wretched Araby but can you imagine even half a per cent consanguinity, as in Izmir (Smyrna!) province, occurring in modern Europe! T'would be a scandal sir!
Finally: firmly Orthodox Romania (no devshirme!) and Montenegro are also low IQ, and Romania is falling fast. I have a theory about the latter which I won't get into here. But the point is that there is probably a gene-culture effect in the Balkans generally that drives down intelligence relative to Western Europe and has nothing to do with soaking off of elites to the Ottoman state. Also the gap between musulmani and Christians *within* the Balkans is pretty slight--something like 1/3 of a SD--which I doubt is significant either practically or *******statistically*******
Finally finally: skanderbeg was obviously Greek.
I doubt millions of Turks are entirely balkan as even European Turks have some central Asian. They’re genetically closest to Balkaners though
I know a fellow who loves Turkish girls. He got really angry at me for saying Turks are a male race once. He is quite sinister, even enjoying a type of food called a sinister snack.
Romania has extremely bad recent brain drain to the west and is also one of the most dysgenic countries by birth distribution over income. Sebastian talks about this in his post. 1/3 of an SD is not paradigm shifting but it is probably real and you can see its impact by looking at Asian academic success
Skanderbeg was Italian!
PS: I mistook Canakkale Villayet (many crypto-Yunans; lowest rate of consanguinesous marriages) for Izmir Vilayet. Yet the point stands.
Sir are you unfamiliar with the
'Approximately 5-7 million Muslim migrants from the Balkans (from Bulgaria 1.15 million-1.5 million; Greece 1.2 million; Romania, 400,000; Yugoslavia, 800,000)'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhacir
?
The vast majority of these people are not Turkic at all and since their arrival in TÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜRKIYE* have tended towards endogamy.
'I know a fellow who loves Turkish girls.'
They can be very nice and not that difficult in the wooing--easier in fact than many Balkan Christian maidens.
'Romania has extremely bad recent brain drain to the west and is also one of the most dysgenic countries by birth distribution over income.'
Both sadly true! The accursed EU is responsible for the former; interbreeding with Gypsies explains the latter until somebody addresses the matter properly (Jensen has not) and convinces me otherwise.
'Skanderbeg was Italian!'
OXI!
*why do some writers I sort-of respect submit to Turkroach decolonisation propaganda by using the new received nomenclature? The Huwhite Man uses Turkey, just as he uses Calcutta, Peking, Ceylon, Canton, Madras and Bombay!
Gyppoes are also a cause of Romanian low IQ, but they make up only a small percent of the population. Probably less than 10% of romanian citizens have any significant gypsy ancestry, but Gypsies are by far the most retarded people in Europe averaging at like 70-75 IQ
Where did you get that probably figure?
No stats are kept but I can assure you that on the basis of impressions the percentage is higher than that, especially among zoomers. Even 10 per cent overall would be a lot: two to three million.
The other thing is that I doubt many full-blood Gypsies have been included in IQ testing *as such*. There are probably more of them contributing to recent dismal PISA averages (more in education system than ever before).
Wikipedia estimates of Gypsies and gypsy-descendants in Romania
Source?
...for which particular baseless claim sah?
If you mean the one about bang Anatolia I can post a picture of her *in flagrante delicto* if it would help you decide whether to launch your own campaign to recapture Constantinople through sexual conquest. I did a lot of capital work and I think I almost succeeded but I now pass the torch on to you yooves.
Dm me it actually- I knew a turkish american girl in HS and she was so hot. But I mean the Skanderberg thing
oh well if you mean SkanderBERG the answer is obviously otherwise...
heheh no no I have no source but his real name was Giorgos Kastrioti(s) and you you will find plenty of Greekoids on retard HBD forums, youtube etc arguing he was a co-ethnic. Balkan memes on xitter is one amusing aggregator of this kind of material.
Pace those people though: I really wonder though how distinct most Greeks and (Toskoid southern only?) Albanians have been since the middle ages. Most people in Attica for example are Albanian in ancestry to some degree and of course a famously large number of Greek independence fighters were Albanoids (eg best name ever Greek chick Laskarina Bouboulina), especially in the navy; also on land the Souliotes and many such cases.
NB: This should not be taken as condoning Albanian colonisation of Greece since the 1990s, which I wholly lament.
He was Italian
Nah
Are albanians even white?
It's a vexed question!
Are modern Greeks?
I'd say the answer in both cases is...yes in some cases.
I would like to see some data corroborating the notion that Muslims do not seem genetically distinct enough from their neighbors to warrant the significant difference in average IQ being a function of genetics. I'm especially suspicious because you often seem to use ancestry as a proxy for clinal distributions (which is appropriate in certain contexts but should largely be avoided). Regardless, there is a simple mechanism that could explain the average IQs being different while the populations are genetically very similar: consanguineous reproduction. I know you kind of covered this in a cursory way, but I think I could offer some more support in favor of the theory. IQ is for the most part highly polygenic, so we often expect there to be a sizable genetic gap between populations with notably different IQs. However, not all genetic influences on intelligence must be polygenic in character. If there is a trend of incestuous relationships generating individuals with defects due to the expression of rare and deleterious recessive alleles, then not too many genes need to enter the picture to yield profound differences between groups. As is well known, many Islamic societies are so swamped in incest it may as well be considered a public health crisis. As an aside, I always found it interesting how Sean Last uses this reality to make the point that in order to deny racial differences in intelligence due to genes one must also believe inbreeding has no negative effects on intelligence since groups widely vary in how frequently they engage in inbreeding.
It is a function of genetics, just not a function of ancestral components. Inbreeding is certainly a factor in low Muslim IQ
I've a soft spot for the Albanians and the other Paleo Balkan peoples as well. If you've seen the new Nosferatu movie, Eggers hired a linguist to recreate the Dacian language for Count Orlok to use. What's your two cents on the Albanian origins. Closer to Greco-Armenian or Balto-Slavic?
Definitely closer to Greco-Armenian. Dacian on the other hand, I have heard compelling evidence recently that it is actually closest related to Balto-Slavic
Come come now sir how can anyone say that? There are no inscriptions at all and the leftover toponyms etc give no real grounds for distinguishing it from also poorly attested Thracian. Also what is left of Dacian must have been mediated by Slavic.
The Dacian warrior caste was heavily Celticised by the time of the Roman encounter. The Dacians were probably one of the very oldest aryan peoples of Europe, therefore lots of 'ethnic layering'. Nobody will ever figure them out NOBODEH!
Pax Weltkreig on Xitter was talking about it, but I think he was only proposing it as a possibility. The consensus is still that it is closer to Balkan langs
Aha I see
I’ve read that Romanian has a lot of Albanian-like substrate. We also know that the original Eastern Romance speakers came from along the Adriatic coast. Why do Romanians claim themselves as Dacians. Wouldn’t the evidence suggest that they are latinized Albanians rather than latinized Dacians.
It does--even calques of whole proverbs. I think this is by far the strongest evidence that the Vlachs originated south and not north of the Jirecek Line. Otherwise the Albanian Highlands origin hypothesis badly violates occam's razor and I'd say the balance tilts in favour of some form of Dacian continuity.
I don't think it's a case of the original E Romance speakers having come from the Adriatic. There were undoubtedly Latin speakers in Hungary and Dacia too. It's a question of 1 the strength of their presence in Dacia and 2 whether they were evacuated/exterminated or survived to transform Latin into E Romance north of the Danube. If they did, they must crossed the river and diffused as far south as Greece and Croatia to bring about the Aromanins, Istro-Vlachs etc. If they didn't they must have come from somewhere south of the Danube. That's it.
Illyrian-Dacian-Thracian are very difficult to distinguish both because they were almost certainly pretty closely related and because there is just not enough direct attestation of any of them.
I wrote a really long and boring piece (don't read it) on this subject some months back on muh stack.
I'll do my due diligence and read it. My question for you tho, do you think Albanian is closer to Graeco-Armenian or Balto-Slavic.
Fucked if I know but if you insist on an answer I will talk out of my arse...
The former--any resemblance to Balto-Slavic *might* be explained by the fact that that Illyrian/Dacian/Thracian are all very early branchings and they *appear* to be like Balto-Slavic because it's the most conservative extant sub-branch of IE. But this is one of the first things real linguists correct for, so I don't know...
Also the idea (still current as far as I know) is that Greco-Armenian speakers must have come south from the Balkans--each a separate wave from I/D/T but also non-Corded Ware--with Armenian later ending up in the Anatolian Highlands...somehow. On the other hand, BAP thinks the Greeks came to Greece by sea (he is a R Drews enjoyer) and the Armenians...I can't remember what he thinks.
But really I am just a dillettante and have studied none of it at all closely.
Agree. Many cognates exist between Albanian & Greek
This was a HIGHLY imaginative reconstruction. Not a bad film, very involving and atmospheric...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88vd7nBA-Ek
How this this reconstruction
It *sounds* great. I don't have the skills to say how accurate it is but all reconstructions of Dacian and other poorly unattested languages peforce rely a lot on imagination.
Nah mane is Mormons is smart
Shqipëri toilet
mate competition, there is none
This is an incredible article! Indeed, it makes sense that the Jizya (Islamising the worst) was improving the Christian population, but the case with the Ottomans was different because they were compensating it with Devshirme (Islamising the best).
Still, what I would contend is whether IQ is a beneficial metric for the population. If the dumb people breed more and urbanise harder, and retain their clan structures more often... IQ is a detriment. (Unless it's used for genocide, like the Germans/Japanese did.)
Dumb people have more dysfunctional societies and cities tend to be meccas for the intelligent. It is only recently that they've become an abode for less intelligent people as they provide many social services. Clannishness seems mostly independent from IQ.
You should make an article on Kurds I heard theyre Persan but I also have heard that they are a mixture of different tribes(not necessarily Persian) that call themselves kurds so idk what they are
Allegedly they are Medes, but I think there is no good evidence that they are Medes. Yes, they both speak Northeast Iranian languages, but so do plenty of other populations.
What do you think these group of people are then?
Mix of Iranians, Mesopotamians, and Armenians
Oh no, Elite Human Capital Break
You listed Armenians as less intelligent than Armenians after the cyclops banania pic
Thank you for telling me
Marrying your first cousin tends to cause IQ loss in your offspring.
Could it have something to do with Albanians historically being fairly isolated mountain people, where IQ didn’t have a huge advantage?
Doubt it, the Swiss have some of the highest IQs in Europe
You should do a stack about the Swiss
I’m back. Will add my opinion later! Interesting post!