Med Supremacists seem way more common than genuine nordicists even though the former is constantly crying about the latter. They attack Northern Europeans like leftists attacks white people, associating us first with racism (Nordicism), then proceeding to own us by saying how while “they” had temples and colosseums we had mud huts. It’s safe edgy racism that even communists adopt all the time.
And it doesn’t end there, we have these degenerates claiming EEF for themselves on the one hand, and on the other we have Indians and central asiatics claiming Indo-Europeans.
All I know is European Supremacy and especially Northern European Supremacy has severely damaged the minds of nonwhites. Resentment is a huge factor, but I also blame the liberal push away from so-called “Eurocentrism”.
The concept of a Mediterranean race was promoted by Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard, and Carleton Coon (in conjugation with their European peers). They didn't have access to fancy FST values. They mostly were working off the cephalic index.
They noted that southern Europeans and Arabs (even Somalians) have narrow, tall skulls. On the other hand, "Alpines" (central Europeans, ranging from France, to Switzerland, all the way into Russia) existed in this intermediate zone between northern and southern Europe, and they tended to have wider, shorter skulls. Finally, when you get to northern Europe (Scandinavia and England), you get tall, narrow skulls again.
What exactly explains this? These American anthropologists believed that it was because the Mediterranean race was "albinized" to become the Nordic race. But somehow the in-between race (Alpine) retained their pre-Aryan traits. They believed (as Hitler did) that Aryans came from Greece (Anatolia), because that was where the earliest evidence for farming came from. It's also where the Bible says that Noah landed.
They were correct that farming came from Anatolia, but they were incorrect to correlate the expansion of Anatolian Farmers with the Aryan expansion. We now know those were two completely different groups with different histories -- but they conflated them into one super race responsible for farming, chariot warfare, metallurgy, and pretty much every other invention.
So the "Mediterranean race" and "Nordic race" were declared "Aryan," while the poor "Alpines" were declared the unfortunate natives, the left-overs of pre-Aryan Europe. This informed Hitler's love of Italians as Aryan, but his rejection of Slavs as Alpine. I never fully understood why these 19th and 20th century racists thought that Aryanization "skipped over" the Alpines and went straight from Italy to Scandinavia.
Your data on the EEF DNA of Celts as being greater than EEF in the Middle East is surprising. It turns out that the Mediterranean race is, in fact, Irish. This is something that was a popular theory among Grant, Stoddard, and Coon, because of the cephalic index of Irish people. So maybe they were right after all.
I’m not really sure why Europe’s interior is so brachycephalic (alpines but also Dinarics) but this is all true, meds are basically pigmented slightly more gracile Nords. Alpines weren’t viewed as totally inferior, it was just sort of seen as a more commoner phenotype. Madison Grant’s strong emphasis on this trichotomy as coloring all of West Eurasia was not really the normal approach of the time. Most constrained these races to Europe, and would have only loosely associated Alpines with Armenoids, or Euro-Meds with Orientalids.
And yes, the Irish but also the entire British isles have many med phenotypes despite being very northerly genetically
Maybe the dolichous type is native to the Mediterranean, and it then moved northward, eventually colonizing Scandinavia which was relatively depopulated and easy to genetically replace the inhabitants. Middle Europe, on the other hand, was already populated with farmers and difficult to genetically replace. The question then is the timeline: when did northern Europe switch from brachous to dolichous? It had to be sometime after the end of the last ice age, because Scandinavia was totally uninhabitable when it was covered in an ice sheet.
If it was in the last 10k years, the assumption would be "EEF farmers moved north into Scandinavia." But genetically, this doesn't make sense, because EEF levels are the lowest in Scandinavia, and WHG levels (pre-agriculture) are the highest. Or maybe the dolichous type emerged from two separate sources: like some ANE type was dolichous, and EEF was dolichous. Maybe you can make better sense of this than me...
In defense of some (not all) of the Mexicans who say this, there is a sizable minority of Mexicans that are descended from Lebanese and Syrian Maronites who left the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s. They’re brown because they’re Middle-Eastern by blood, not because they are Native American in heritage. Carlos Slim, for example, is a Lebanese-Mexican, and IIRC a lot of Mexican Catholic clergy is Lebanese.
And in the United States. Here in Oklahoma there's a wealthy Lebanese family of some repute that's been here for a while. They've got a lot of high local positions in business, medicine, politics, and the military, and I looked them up and they actually descend from a Patriarch of Antioch in the 19th Century. For some reason some of those Lebanese really get around and can network well, which I haven't yet observed for any other group of Middle Eastern diaspora.
It's not all good for that group, though. In the Orthodox Christian world, the "cradle" women who are born into the faith go one extreme direction or the other: they're either very pious mothers and nuns or they're complete sluts. The phenomenon exists for the Slavs, is quite pronounced for the Greeks, and most extreme of all for the Arabs. The Lebanese Christian women either instantly turn church reader grandma lady once they reach their 20s or they become the sluttiest, most immodest women in Christendom, and there doesn't seen to be any in between in my experience.
I think the worship is just the same, it’s just an ancestry thing. Like they have more families that have a tradition of sons becoming priests. But I don’t remember where I read this from so take this with a grain of salt.
I must admit i’m quite surprised i didn’t see any mention of the mystery meat that is Maltese, i always thought they were like andalusians that is arabicized europeans but they’re apparently pretty middle eastern shifted which makes sense since there was actually zero population continuity on the island following the muslim invasion. I also read that napoleon had an interest in them and used them as interpreters when he went to egypt, there’s also another really interesting thing which i haven’t seen anyone mention ever but a morisco nobleman called Nuñez Muley in his defence of christians using arabic stated that the maltese were arabic speaking christians even though it had been centuries since their disconnect from the islamicate world at the time.
> The greatest Arabian influence of Europe was the introduction of the food that would eventually become the Cannoli.
Agriculture especially, the Andalusians seemed to have been very keen on agricultural stuff for some reason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_agricultural_corpus, but imo i think the greatest influence was probably on astronomy i always thought the stars had weird names because of egyptian or some shit but no it was actually arabic
Andalusian Muslims were mostly locals, but yes the Arabians did have a big influence on star names. Off the top of my head I know Betelgeuse and Aldebaran are Arabian
yea there’s a lot more, it’s interesting because i was reading Chaucer’s poem on the astrolabe recently and it seems to be there were more arabic names even back then than there are now
Watching MENAs call themselves "Mediterranean" is like watching West Slavs call themselves "Central European", only the latter arguably has more weight to it.
There is a generic Mediterranean phenotype that exists in very high numbers all around the Mediterranean, this is why there is this idea of a Mediterranean race. Now, while it's difficult to say that Greeks cluster with Levantines, there is, however, a genetic cline from Southern Europeans to the Levant when you consider the existence of many intermediate groups such as Jews, Cypriots, Sicilians, and now extinct peoples such as the Sea Peoples. Now, there are several factors that might explain some phenotypic similarity between Southern Europeans and Levantines. One is that, despite a genetic drift between Anatolian Neolithic Farmers and Natufians, convergent evolution selected for similar phenotypic traits due to the fact that they both lived in a similar climate. Also, the Levantine Natufians would later accquire more Neanderthal and ANE shifted ancestry. Since it came from the Chalcothic Caucasus and Chalcothic Iran, it drifted their ancestry further away, but it also introduced yet another shared component. Finally, something that might explain the phenotypic similarity between Mediterranean residing people is the ancestral components they don't have rather than the ones they have in common, such as, very low or no steppe ancestry. Although Anatolian Neolithic Farmers in Southern Europe mated with WHG and Steppe people, drifting their ancestry further away from the Near East and drawing it into a European cluster, the genes for brown eyes and hair are dominant over the recessive genes for blue eyes and blonde hair, meaning that the mixed Southern Europeans are going to retain some of those generic features we associate with the Mediterranean and sunny climates, and this is especially true for those Southern Europeans with very high amounts of Neolithic Anatolian ancestry.
Aren't Sardinians supposed to be pure EEF or close to it? According to google image search their skin tone ranges from the super pale Irish phenotype to a sort of swarthy but not quite brown Israeli-ish look
Med Supremacists seem way more common than genuine nordicists even though the former is constantly crying about the latter. They attack Northern Europeans like leftists attacks white people, associating us first with racism (Nordicism), then proceeding to own us by saying how while “they” had temples and colosseums we had mud huts. It’s safe edgy racism that even communists adopt all the time.
And it doesn’t end there, we have these degenerates claiming EEF for themselves on the one hand, and on the other we have Indians and central asiatics claiming Indo-Europeans.
All I know is European Supremacy and especially Northern European Supremacy has severely damaged the minds of nonwhites. Resentment is a huge factor, but I also blame the liberal push away from so-called “Eurocentrism”.
The concept of a Mediterranean race was promoted by Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard, and Carleton Coon (in conjugation with their European peers). They didn't have access to fancy FST values. They mostly were working off the cephalic index.
They noted that southern Europeans and Arabs (even Somalians) have narrow, tall skulls. On the other hand, "Alpines" (central Europeans, ranging from France, to Switzerland, all the way into Russia) existed in this intermediate zone between northern and southern Europe, and they tended to have wider, shorter skulls. Finally, when you get to northern Europe (Scandinavia and England), you get tall, narrow skulls again.
What exactly explains this? These American anthropologists believed that it was because the Mediterranean race was "albinized" to become the Nordic race. But somehow the in-between race (Alpine) retained their pre-Aryan traits. They believed (as Hitler did) that Aryans came from Greece (Anatolia), because that was where the earliest evidence for farming came from. It's also where the Bible says that Noah landed.
They were correct that farming came from Anatolia, but they were incorrect to correlate the expansion of Anatolian Farmers with the Aryan expansion. We now know those were two completely different groups with different histories -- but they conflated them into one super race responsible for farming, chariot warfare, metallurgy, and pretty much every other invention.
So the "Mediterranean race" and "Nordic race" were declared "Aryan," while the poor "Alpines" were declared the unfortunate natives, the left-overs of pre-Aryan Europe. This informed Hitler's love of Italians as Aryan, but his rejection of Slavs as Alpine. I never fully understood why these 19th and 20th century racists thought that Aryanization "skipped over" the Alpines and went straight from Italy to Scandinavia.
Your data on the EEF DNA of Celts as being greater than EEF in the Middle East is surprising. It turns out that the Mediterranean race is, in fact, Irish. This is something that was a popular theory among Grant, Stoddard, and Coon, because of the cephalic index of Irish people. So maybe they were right after all.
I’m not really sure why Europe’s interior is so brachycephalic (alpines but also Dinarics) but this is all true, meds are basically pigmented slightly more gracile Nords. Alpines weren’t viewed as totally inferior, it was just sort of seen as a more commoner phenotype. Madison Grant’s strong emphasis on this trichotomy as coloring all of West Eurasia was not really the normal approach of the time. Most constrained these races to Europe, and would have only loosely associated Alpines with Armenoids, or Euro-Meds with Orientalids.
And yes, the Irish but also the entire British isles have many med phenotypes despite being very northerly genetically
Maybe the dolichous type is native to the Mediterranean, and it then moved northward, eventually colonizing Scandinavia which was relatively depopulated and easy to genetically replace the inhabitants. Middle Europe, on the other hand, was already populated with farmers and difficult to genetically replace. The question then is the timeline: when did northern Europe switch from brachous to dolichous? It had to be sometime after the end of the last ice age, because Scandinavia was totally uninhabitable when it was covered in an ice sheet.
If it was in the last 10k years, the assumption would be "EEF farmers moved north into Scandinavia." But genetically, this doesn't make sense, because EEF levels are the lowest in Scandinavia, and WHG levels (pre-agriculture) are the highest. Or maybe the dolichous type emerged from two separate sources: like some ANE type was dolichous, and EEF was dolichous. Maybe you can make better sense of this than me...
'I’m not really sure why Europe’s interior is so brachycephalic'
Look to the steppes? Nothing dolichocephalic or gracile about Bwitish Beaker Folk or Yamnaya...
That book "March of Titans" claims that a Welsh man has the perfect med phenotype.
In defense of some (not all) of the Mexicans who say this, there is a sizable minority of Mexicans that are descended from Lebanese and Syrian Maronites who left the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s. They’re brown because they’re Middle-Eastern by blood, not because they are Native American in heritage. Carlos Slim, for example, is a Lebanese-Mexican, and IIRC a lot of Mexican Catholic clergy is Lebanese.
There are weird splotches of Lebanese Christians all over Latin America
And in the United States. Here in Oklahoma there's a wealthy Lebanese family of some repute that's been here for a while. They've got a lot of high local positions in business, medicine, politics, and the military, and I looked them up and they actually descend from a Patriarch of Antioch in the 19th Century. For some reason some of those Lebanese really get around and can network well, which I haven't yet observed for any other group of Middle Eastern diaspora.
It's not all good for that group, though. In the Orthodox Christian world, the "cradle" women who are born into the faith go one extreme direction or the other: they're either very pious mothers and nuns or they're complete sluts. The phenomenon exists for the Slavs, is quite pronounced for the Greeks, and most extreme of all for the Arabs. The Lebanese Christian women either instantly turn church reader grandma lady once they reach their 20s or they become the sluttiest, most immodest women in Christendom, and there doesn't seen to be any in between in my experience.
I've heard Salma Hayek is lebanese
I’ve heard of the lebanese in mexico but never of the clergy part, does this make mexican catholicism more maronite?
I think the worship is just the same, it’s just an ancestry thing. Like they have more families that have a tradition of sons becoming priests. But I don’t remember where I read this from so take this with a grain of salt.
I must admit i’m quite surprised i didn’t see any mention of the mystery meat that is Maltese, i always thought they were like andalusians that is arabicized europeans but they’re apparently pretty middle eastern shifted which makes sense since there was actually zero population continuity on the island following the muslim invasion. I also read that napoleon had an interest in them and used them as interpreters when he went to egypt, there’s also another really interesting thing which i haven’t seen anyone mention ever but a morisco nobleman called Nuñez Muley in his defence of christians using arabic stated that the maltese were arabic speaking christians even though it had been centuries since their disconnect from the islamicate world at the time.
> The greatest Arabian influence of Europe was the introduction of the food that would eventually become the Cannoli.
Agriculture especially, the Andalusians seemed to have been very keen on agricultural stuff for some reason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusi_agricultural_corpus, but imo i think the greatest influence was probably on astronomy i always thought the stars had weird names because of egyptian or some shit but no it was actually arabic
Andalusian Muslims were mostly locals, but yes the Arabians did have a big influence on star names. Off the top of my head I know Betelgeuse and Aldebaran are Arabian
yea there’s a lot more, it’s interesting because i was reading Chaucer’s poem on the astrolabe recently and it seems to be there were more arabic names even back then than there are now
Watching MENAs call themselves "Mediterranean" is like watching West Slavs call themselves "Central European", only the latter arguably has more weight to it.
Europeans live on the north side and Semites live on the south side; there is no common "Mediterranean" race.
There is a generic Mediterranean phenotype that exists in very high numbers all around the Mediterranean, this is why there is this idea of a Mediterranean race. Now, while it's difficult to say that Greeks cluster with Levantines, there is, however, a genetic cline from Southern Europeans to the Levant when you consider the existence of many intermediate groups such as Jews, Cypriots, Sicilians, and now extinct peoples such as the Sea Peoples. Now, there are several factors that might explain some phenotypic similarity between Southern Europeans and Levantines. One is that, despite a genetic drift between Anatolian Neolithic Farmers and Natufians, convergent evolution selected for similar phenotypic traits due to the fact that they both lived in a similar climate. Also, the Levantine Natufians would later accquire more Neanderthal and ANE shifted ancestry. Since it came from the Chalcothic Caucasus and Chalcothic Iran, it drifted their ancestry further away, but it also introduced yet another shared component. Finally, something that might explain the phenotypic similarity between Mediterranean residing people is the ancestral components they don't have rather than the ones they have in common, such as, very low or no steppe ancestry. Although Anatolian Neolithic Farmers in Southern Europe mated with WHG and Steppe people, drifting their ancestry further away from the Near East and drawing it into a European cluster, the genes for brown eyes and hair are dominant over the recessive genes for blue eyes and blonde hair, meaning that the mixed Southern Europeans are going to retain some of those generic features we associate with the Mediterranean and sunny climates, and this is especially true for those Southern Europeans with very high amounts of Neolithic Anatolian ancestry.
I know if nobody got me, sectionalism will still assert Italians are white, and that's all I need.
On foenem grave
🍝
Aren't Sardinians supposed to be pure EEF or close to it? According to google image search their skin tone ranges from the super pale Irish phenotype to a sort of swarthy but not quite brown Israeli-ish look
They have some WHG and Steppe, but they’re the most EEF rich people in the world
Wallah you sound like Ignatiev habibi!
If the Mediterranean race doesn't exist then what am I?! You wanna genocide me habibi?!
You’re either European or you’re non-European in my books
heheh just adopting a provocative comic persona there...
I agree of course
My Terra-chad med jawline sliced this article in half before I could read it.
Couldn't care less about the article, but i found the "boobs break" amusing. Regarding all this racial talk, to me whites are whites, period.